MARS/CAP mods

[KD7RJC]

But opening up a transmitter is de facto evidence you are going to transmit.

Respectfully, I own wrenches large enough to be capable of dismounting streetlight poles at their foundations, and I've never even slotted one of these wrenches onto one of the nuts that anchors such a pole down. At one point I owned a hook used to open Christy Vaults and other in-ground pullboxes, but I only ever used it to open vaults on properties I was authorized to perform telecom work at, and only on those vaults that I had the right to gain access to. I have the self control to not give the FCC a reason to come knocking.

I find it curious that you come in to a mature discussion thread on performing MARS/CAP mods to express dissatisfaction with the notion. That's like going into a discussion of home brewing of craft beer to complain against home-brewing beer.

 

[buddrousa]

Well it still does make it legal and there are reasons legal radios were to be changed to block this from happening.

 

[Token]

"Never mind" is absolutely correct. There will always be people who believe that their self perceived need for a radio that will transmit in places where they are not authorized somehow overrides FCC/NTIA requirements and various federal, state and local laws. And there will always be people who simply cannot believe that it is possible to possess a modified radio along with the self control needed to stay out of systems/frequencies which one is not authorized for.

I understand your statement, and what you meant by it. I also agree with your general meaning. However, I have a question.



In the statement:

There will always be people who believe that their self perceived need for a radio that will transmit in places where they are not authorized somehow overrides FCC/NTIA requirements and various federal, state and local laws.

Are you saying that possession (whether I perceive a need to own it or not) of a radio transmitter that is capable of transmitting on frequencies I have no authorization for is a violation of FCC/NTIA requirements or various federal, state, and local laws?

T!

 

[AK9R]

Are you saying that possession (whether I perceive a need to own it or not) of a radio transmitter that is capable of transmitting on frequencies I have no authorization for is a violation of FCC/NTIA requirements or various federal, state, and local laws?

Generally, possession is not an issue and I'm not aware of any Federal law that prohibits possession of a radio capable of transmitting on frequencies that you aren't authorized for. However, I'd check the applicable state laws. For example, Indiana law (IC 35-44.1-2-7) says that possession of a "police radio" outside of your dwelling or place of business is a Class B misdemeanor. Indiana law then goes on to say: "'police radio means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes..."

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, I don't see an issue on the FCC side with "possession".

Where the FCC is clear is about how the radio is actually programmed:

§ 90.427 Precautions against unauthorized operation.​

(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance with § 90.417, no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized.​

​

As often happens, this is the part that gets ignored. Some will program frequencies/tones they find on certain websites into their radio "just in case".

 

[mastr]

Are you saying that possession (whether I perceive a need to own it or not) of a radio transmitter that is capable of transmitting on frequencies I have no authorization for is a violation of FCC/NTIA requirements or various federal, state, and local laws?

T!

Modification for "out of band" operation usually voids FCC type acceptance.

Possession itself may or may not be illegal depending on local laws. In my state possession of "...any mobile radio set or apparatus capable of either receiving or transmitting radio or other messages or signals within the wave length or channel now or which may hereafter be allocated by the Federal Communications Commission, or its successor, for the purpose of police radios, or which may in any way intercept or interfere with the transmission of radio messages by any police or other peace officers..." is prohibited with few exceptions by KRS 432.570.

(DISCLAIMER- I am not a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice)

 

[N4DES]

§ 1.902 Scope.​

In case of any conflict between the rules set forth in this subpart and the rules set forth in parts 13, 20, 22, 24, 27, 30, 74, 80, 87, 90, 95, 96, 97, and 101 of title 47, chapter I of the Code of Federal Regulations, the rules in this part shall govern.
[83 FR 60, Jan. 2, 2018]

§ 1.903 Authorization required.​

(a) General rule. Stations in the Wireless Radio Services must be used and operated only in accordance with the rules applicable to their particular service as set forth in this title and with a valid authorization granted by the Commission under the provisions of this part, except as specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(b) Restrictions. The holding of an authorization does not create any rights beyond the terms, conditions and period specified in the authorization. Authorizations may be granted upon proper application, provided that the Commission finds that the applicant is qualified in regard to citizenship, character, financial, technical and other criteria, and that the public interest, convenience and necessity will be served. See §§ 301, 308, and 309, 310 of this chapter.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

§ 1.902 Scope.​

In case of any conflict between the rules set forth in this subpart and the rules set forth in parts 13, 20, 22, 24, 27, 30, 74, 80, 87, 90, 95, 96, 97, and 101 of title 47, chapter I of the Code of Federal Regulations, the rules in this part shall govern.
[83 FR 60, Jan. 2, 2018]

§ 1.903 Authorization required.​

(a) General rule. Stations in the Wireless Radio Services must be used and operated only in accordance with the rules applicable to their particular service as set forth in this title and with a valid authorization granted by the Commission under the provisions of this part, except as specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(b) Restrictions. The holding of an authorization does not create any rights beyond the terms, conditions and period specified in the authorization. Authorizations may be granted upon proper application, provided that the Commission finds that the applicant is qualified in regard to citizenship, character, financial, technical and other criteria, and that the public interest, convenience and necessity will be served. See §§ 301, 308, and 309, 310 of this chapter.

Oh look, proof that 97.403 only applies to operation within Part 97 and it's related spectrum.

 

[MTS2000des]

Oh look, proof that 97.403 only applies to operation within Part 97 and it's related spectrum.

ARES Superman with his Bandolero of Bowelturds blaring CopSounds™ just isn't going to accept that. They know When All Else Fails™ they'll be there to save humanity.

 

[MUTNAV]

ARES Superman with his Bandolero of Bowelturds blaring CopSounds™ just isn't going to accept that. They know When All Else Fails™ they'll be there to save humanity.

Maybe they don't get this.

Thanks
Joel

 

[vagrant]

I avoid the MARS/CAP mods by using an APX 7000xe VHF/UHF R1. I also do not program PD, Fire and the like I am not licensed nor authorized to use, even for RX only use. I have scanners for that stuff, even though I can restrict TX on the APX. No Marine in there either as I do not have a boat.

CopSounds™ are exactly why I do not have those freqs programed in. The BT mic allows me to leave it mostly under a shirt as well. Still, I am typically in nowhere land when I use it due to the frequency versatility and durability.

 

[rescuecomm]

So how does owning software that can program police frequencies into Part 90 radios make the end result different?

 

[MTS2000des]

So how does owning software that can program police frequencies into Part 90 radios make the end result different?

Very much so. Used to be software was only sold/made available to qualified persons. In Consequence Free USA, not so much. But the cost usually keeps most low end whackers away. Motorola Solutions now gives away APX CPS if one registers and is approved for a MyView account. L3 Harris, JVC Kenwood still charge a pretty penny for their warez and make one go through a dealer.

Unauthorized is unauthorized: whether it's conventional frequencies one isn't licensed for, or using stolen software to generate trunking system keys to program subscribers on a trunking system one doesn't have legal written permission to do so. It's all good, until it isn't. Ask this guy for instance.

 

[jhooten]

Used to be software was only sold/made available to qualified persons.

98% of the reason Mother /\/\ did that was to protect their dealer networks income stream. If you couldn't get the software to program your own radios you had to pay the shop to do it.

 

[GlobalNorth]

Why does MARS still exist? It is a legacy system that no longer does what it was meant to do. End it.

The CAP [local to me] is a bunch of people chasing a beacon simulating a crashed aircraft and being very inefficient about it on VHF repeaters.

 

[AK9R]

CAP is an FAA thing that is active in some locations for locating downed aircraft. I know of at least two CAP units in Indiana that are organized around regional airports. From what I understand, CAP mostly uses P25 on VHF/UHF so that eliminates radios made for the amateur radio market.

Both Army MARS and Air Force MARS still exist for reasons determined by the military branches they serve. AF MARS is set up as a back-up communications path for air-to-ground messages. My gut feeling is that you are more likely to find MARS traffic on HF than VHF/UHF which makes getting a "MARS/CAP" to your favorite VHF/UHF handheld pretty much pointless.

 

[alcahuete]

CAP is an FAA thing...

CAP is part of the US Air Force Auxiliary. They're kinda like the CERT of the skies.

 

[prcguy]

CAP is an FAA thing that is active in some locations for locating downed aircraft. I know of at least two CAP units in Indiana that are organized around regional airports. From what I understand, CAP mostly uses P25 on VHF/UHF so that eliminates radios made for the amateur radio market.

Both Army MARS and Air Force MARS still exist for reasons determined by the military branches they serve. AF MARS is set up as a back-up communications path for air-to-ground messages. My gut feeling is that you are more likely to find MARS traffic on HF than VHF/UHF which makes getting a "MARS/CAP" to your favorite VHF/UHF handheld pretty much pointless.

There is also the US Coast Guard Auxiliary that uses both VHF and HF freqs governed by NITA and not FCC. They still allow modified HF amateur equipment on approved NITA freqs but non marine band VHF radios must be Part 90 compliant.